Muhammad Yar Khattana
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Post by Muhammad Yar Khattana on Mar 31, 2006 8:45:44 GMT -5
Sorry "gurjara kings"
Muhammad Yar Khattana
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Post by Arindum khashtry on Mar 31, 2006 9:10:09 GMT -5
Leave this discussion friends. Google does not show good search figure. It shows different daily. MR. Ap Singh, please tell me why we share some gottras with rajputs? Like bhattis, chouhans, noons, solankis toors, tanwars and lot more? Orignally they are rajputs or gujjars? Arindum Khashtry.
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Post by Gurjar Khatana on Mar 31, 2006 9:11:10 GMT -5
Hello,
This is a new thread about the origins of Gujrat, in Punjab. Can anyone tell me who built this city, or the original fortification?
I think it was a Gujjar leader called Alakhana in the 9th century, when Gujjars ruled under the Pritharas..
Any replies
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Post by AP Singh on Apr 1, 2006 2:28:00 GMT -5
Hi Arindum, I have clarified the same in my earlier mais. Gurjar word first appeared first time in literature and poetry of bards sometime around 5th. century whereas Rajput word appreared in History only after 10th. Century. Moreover Rajput name was given to the fuedatory kings of Gurjar Pratihars who asserted thier independence when Gujjar main kingdom at Kannauj became weaker. Most of these fuedatories were Gujjars only who still share the same Gotras. See the following links for authenticity of my claim. The best of Rajputs are like Chauhans,Solankis,Parmars,Tanwars are Gujjars only. In Harshcharita by Bhan Bhat, there is a reference that during the reign of Prabhakar Vardhan there were some powerful domains (kingdoms) of Gujjars. 1.These powerful domains (Kingdoms) were of pratihars, Parmars, Solankis, Chawras,Chauhans,Tanwars etc. This book was written sometime in 6th. century. The rajput word in the history appeared after 10th. century. 2. The origin of Rajputs has been there in History papers of Indian Administrative service (IAS) in one of the year during 90s and solved answers were published in the Rojgar Samachar ( Employment news) clearly stating that the earlier feudatory kings (Samants) of Gurjar Pratihars , got freedom and were later called as rajputs irrespective of their original race. 3.British encyclopedia may also be referred as a conclusive since it is source of authentic information for everybody and this is what is mentioned there- 1.By the end of the 10th century, the Pratihara feudatories--Cauhans (Cahamanas), Candellas (Chandelas), Guhilas, Kalacuris, Paramaras, and Caulukyas (also called Solankis)--were asserting their independence, although the last of the Pratiharas survived until 1027. See Encyclopedia Britannica at (http://www.kat.gr/kat/History/Ancient/India5.htm
Hence Gujjars and Rajput should know that they are real cousins and should stop fighting like in a Hindi films where two brothers get lost in some of the mela and keep fighting with each other for two hours and 50 minute out of a three hour film and come to know only at the end after seeing some birth marks on the bodies of each other during the bout that they are real brothers. It is the villain who enjoy for the complete two hours and 50 minutes.
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Post by ParvinderGurjar on Apr 1, 2006 2:50:10 GMT -5
Hello to all, Gurjar Khatana, Arindum Khashtry, Mh. Yar Khatana The Search Engine of Goggle Doesn’t shows the actual figure. Even Those Kingdom Which is no doubt that they were Gurjar Dynasties, but mentioned as Rajputs Kingdoms. They are as follows……… 1. Partihar 2. Maitrik of Vallabhi Nagar 3. Parmar of Malwa 4. Chauhan of Shakamberi 5. Chauhans of Ajmer 6. Chandellas of Bundelkhand 7. Solankis of Anhilwada Patan (Gujarat), 8. Tawar of Delhi 9. Chalukya Dynasties of Deccan (4 Different Kingdoms) 10. Guhilas of Chittor 11. Chawada Dynasity I might be missing many of them as well. All of them mentioned as Rajput Kingdoms on the websites. That’s why you people found so much search result on the goggle. And if you exclude these results you will find nothing on the names of Rajputs only small Riyasaats in mughal era. This is what A.P. Singh Bhai has tries to explain here that the manipulation is done by the British historian with the Gurjar and not to mention why they done that, unfortunately some of our historian has also followed them. Special thanks to historian K.M Munshi and Baijnath Puri who took the initiative and showed the right path to historian. Both of them stated every kingdom before 1300 CE as Gurjar Dynasty. Infect the present day Gurjar princely state samther is also mentioned as rajput. See the following two links - www.jhansi.nic.in/excurs.htm- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BirgoojurAnd there are so many examples of this thing manipulation. Parvinder Gurjar
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Post by mazhar gujjar on Apr 1, 2006 15:31:37 GMT -5
hi ap singh ji and all brave gujjars,
interesting thread has gone to 3rd page.discussion had been started wrong way but becom
a good discussion.many of our history confusion has been solved and many has been pointed for discussion.
the confusion is that our many gotras r same as rajputs.but the confusion starts when
we go to school or college.
my grandmother was chauhan gujjar.in my childhood when i red about the chauhan kings
specialy about prithvi i had not any confusion about there gujjar origin.bcoz aperson of
chauhan clan was my family member.my grandmother,s family was a big family.they had and
have more than 5 villages totally chauhan gujjars.old man of that chauhan gujjars who did
not see the face of school also knew about prithvi raj.
but when i read in my course books in schools the prithvi raj chauhan was a rajput.
i asked my teacher why you r saying prithvi raj rajput.he told me chauhan is a rajput clan.
i asled my grandmother r you rajput.she asked me why r u saying this.i told her that in my
books chauhans r rajput.she told me a chauhan is standing infront of u and saying u she is
gujjar. next day i told my teacher that my grandmother is gujjar and chauhan is a big clan
of gujjars so why r u saying chauhans r rajput.he is much surprised to know that gujjars
have clans.he said me its right that gujjars r powerfull and brave people but i dont know
that they have clans.he said me that i think gujjar r the people who sell milk.
another experience is that a friennd of mine mentioned a gujjar member of national
assembly as rajput bcoz he used chauhan with his name.qurban ali chauhan is a great
politician.he became member of assembly for more than one time this time his son is member
of assemly.qurban ali chauhan also an active member of gujjar organisations.my rajput
friend mentioned him as rajput.when i told him he is agujjar.my rajput friend also surprised
to know that chauhans r gujjar gotra also.
gujjar youth forum is a big organisation of pakistani gujjars.dr hafiz ahmed chauhan is
general secretry of punjab gujjar youth forum .a friend of mine who is only chauhan asked
me why is a chauhan in gujjar organisation.he also surprised to know about chauhan
gujjars.its also many other gotras of gujjars specialy toor, tanwar, gahlot,sood,noon,
chawara and solankhi.these r big populated gotras of gujjars but every where these
gotras r mentioned as rajput gotras only.not only these gotras many gotras which r
only gujjar gotras also mentioned some places as rajput gotras.
why this is. bcoz
1.more historians did not research and wrote what they have heard from their friends.
2.from last thousand years we were indecline .we were away from education and from
people.
3.our enemies specialy mughals anb britisher tried their best to crush us ,our history,
our culure and our language.bcoz every invader try to say bad the defenders.bcoz gujjars
were their real enemies so they wrote them dacoits and theives.what astrange thing the
qwners and real inhabitants r theives bcoz they tried to save their country and the people
who entered in other,s teritory for dacoity r heroes.mughal period is not an islamic period.
i also want to say my hindu gujjars the muslim gujjars did not accepted islam bcoz of fear.
i am saying this bcoz i read in a hindu gujjar website that the muslim gujjars accepted islam
bcoz of muslim rulers threat. its totaly wrong. a gujjar who knows about gujjars and their
bravory cannot say this,gujjar cold not afraid and cannot afraid.they did not change their
tribe in so many hurdles how can they change their religion. gujjars accepted islam with their
own choice. 5.the last reason is this time our educated persons r responsible for our identity.
our elders alived the gujjar word as they could.they named their provinces,cities,villages
towns on gujjar word.they proudly said them gujjar in every condition.
but now when we r in every field gujjars identity is still as gawalas.our educated people
do not tell him bravely about gujjars. how can people know our history.who will tell them
gujjar is a name of tribe not a profession. why we think that others will try to know
about us.at the time when we also have no interest to know about ourselves.
some will not agree with me but its a reality.the persons who served their money
their whole life for gujjar history.what we have done with them.
nobody not in gujjars but also in other tribes can do so much which have been done
by " RANA ALI HASAN CHAUHAN" FOR GUJJAR HISTORY.
a person who have read his history books can stand infront every other tribe for
discussion. the questions which r discussing now a days in this thread has been
solved in his books.
what have we done with him and his work.how many gujjars not outsiders but also i
this website know about him and his books.
what have we done with his work. he had written "tarikh e gurjar" in five parts.
you cannot find any part from anywhere. he had given his books freely to gujjar
organisation in pakistan.but his books have been destroyed bcoz of our no interest.
this thread had been started by mr muneeb rao when he said gujjars r gawalas.
he is right .bcoz other people only know about gawala gujjars.only gawala gujjars
say proudly and bravly that we r gujjars and we dont afraid of anyone.
we r fighting about gujjar kings .gujjar kings were in history.the people dont know the
gujjar legends of this time. bcoz our legends did not use gujjar word with their names.
we have produced big names in politics,in science, in burocracey,in poetry and in army
also.but stil our identity is as gawalas.
i know many gujjars will be angry on my words but its a reality which cannot be
explored on internet ,it can be explored in real world. mazhar gujjar,
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Post by mazhar gujjar on Apr 1, 2006 15:39:40 GMT -5
mr muhammad yar khan khtana,
internet is not a good source of knowledge specialy history.you can find many but not
all from here .you caannot totally trust on internet.
if anyone want to know much about gujjars read the history of rana ali hasan chauhan
about gujjars.so to find real gujjar kings dont waste ur time on internet.
mazhargujjar
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Post by mazhar gujjar on Apr 1, 2006 16:23:27 GMT -5
hi arvinder gujjar,
you asked about some similar gotras of rajput and gujjars.
your question is that r these gotras r rajputs or gujjars.
dr ap singh our real historian in this web has answered u very well with their best knowledge.
i also want to share some facts with our gujjar brothers.
my opinion is that these gotras r realy gujjargotras.
the areas where these gotras r similar with other tribes r the areas where our culture
our languages r same.in these areas its very easy to mix with eachother.its very
easy to change their origin.
if you want to know reality please go to the high mountains.where life is alive
with his real condition.specialy nwfp of pakistan and high mountains of afghanistan.
in those areas gujjar r living with the tribes who have other culture and languages.
in those areas you can see our language and culture r safe and in their real condition.
in those areas mixing is very difficult.
in those areas gujjars have big population.they live in gotras .if three villages will be
of chauhans then next ten mile area will be under sood gujjars.pathan gotras r different.
so gujjar gotras cannot mix with pathans.
in those areas rvery gujjar gotra is present but their is no rajput can be find there.
they did not listen word rajput. they r living in high mountains. they did not read any
history book. they did see any big city.they dont know about lahore but they know
about gujrat india. they know the history of their gotras as we dicussing on the internet
and by dr ap singh.they tell the same story of gujjar kings which have been written in old indian history books. when we askthem who have told you this story they answer this story
has been told by our forefathers. please think we r living in cities near libraries we dont
know much about our history. who has told the history to the gujjar of a high mountain.
we can find many answers to think about it.
mazhar gujjar
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Post by ParvinderGurjar on Apr 2, 2006 1:23:37 GMT -5
Hi mazhar bhai, I am not confussed at all about the Gurjar kingdoms. I have written about them, I know that they are Gurjars. But what I was trying to say that how much our history is being manipulated by the historians (willing fully or not). I always think that what our gurjar organization does…………… Why don’t they take the initiative to change such things from the history books at school level? As many of the things has been rectified at the university level. Parvinder Gurjar
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Post by rajan on Apr 12, 2006 6:35:10 GMT -5
in the past fourteen hundred years how many arabs,gaznavis,ghoris,khiljis,tughlaqs,taimooris,lodhis,mughals,dutch,french,portugis and british have been given the status of kshatryas or any other caste status at all?.remember,these were all invaders just like the greeks,bacterians,parthians,scythians,kushans,yue-chis and huns etc.also remember that both muslim and british empires were more powerful and enduring and covered all of the indian subcontinent and the previous scythian and kushan empires were not so powerful and longlasting and so wide spread.
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Post by AP Singh on Apr 17, 2006 0:36:08 GMT -5
Hi Muneeb, I would like to inform you that in India every Rao is not Rajput. Late Shri Narsimha Rao was a brahmin. In Haryana the Raos are yadavs (Ahirs) but then among rajputs also certain dynasties claim descendants to Ahirs like Rathors ( Satyaki branch of Yadu vansh) and jadejas of Junagarh, Jujarat.
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Post by AP Singh on Apr 17, 2006 0:45:01 GMT -5
Hi Parvinder, In your reply number#34, the Maitrik of Vallabhi Nagar were a bracnch of Gupta dynasty and not of Gujjar dynasty. All other in the following list were Gujjars. 1. Partihar 3. Parmar of Malwa 4. Chauhan of Shakamberi 5. Chauhans of Ajmer 6. Chandellas of Bundelkhand 7. Solankis of Anhilwada Patan (Gujarat), 8. Tawar of Delhi 9. Chalukya Dynasties of Deccan (4 Different Kingdoms) 10. Guhilas of Chittor 11. Chawada Dynasity
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Post by ParvinderGurjar on Apr 18, 2006 15:15:35 GMT -5
hi ap singh bhai,
matrik dynasty was not gupta dynasty............
matrik dyansty was suryavansi and considered as the decendent of great kushans........
and the meaning of word matrik is related to suryavansh........
the caste of gupta dynasty is not clear......
many historian give there different views over gupta caste..........still it is not clear
infect matrik, guhil-gahalot, baisla-bhonsle, solanki, rewa are from the same stock of kushans....
matrik is still a gotra in gurjar........
but at the time matrik dynasty it was not a subcaste but a tittle surname for them.......
Parvinder Gurjar
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Post by AP Singh on Apr 19, 2006 0:44:32 GMT -5
Hi Parvinder, To the best my knowledge Maitrik belong to Gupta Dynasty. The Gupta period (Gupt kal) is called as the Golden period of history in India.Gujjars appeared on the scene when this dynasty alongwith the Brahmin dynasty at Punjab ( Raja Dahir was a brahmin) could not face the invading Arabs and the Gujjar Nagabhatta from Malwa came to their rescue and he has not only sucessfully repulsed the Arab attack but chased them up to Sindh to make sure that they will not return again. That was the time the Gujjars were given the title of Pratihars of India (The protectors of india). Harsh Charita written by Bana Bhatta is based on life of King Harsh Vardan who belonged to Gupta Dynasty and it was probably the first book where various Gujjar kingdoms were mentioned ruling in India. Later Vallabhi was taken over by Gujjars and it is true that the glorious history of this place belong to only Gujjars. Regards. AP Singh
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Post by ParvinderGurjar on Apr 19, 2006 1:48:10 GMT -5
Hello AP Singh Brother, I am not challenging your knowledge over history, but our knowledge depands upon the books which we refered. Here problem is that many historian give there different views about different dynasties and every thing has become a mess. Infect many of the historian suggested that Raja Dahir was Gurjar but I do not want to discuss that. Now talking about Matrik dynasty, this was established by Bhattark in around 480CE at, that time there was no signs of gupta kingdom. And bhattark was the army chieftain of Yashodhrama Vikramaditya and no doubt him that he was Gurjar. It is very clear that Matrik who ruled over kathiawad, is the branch of Kushans of Aryavarat and make capital at vallabhi nagar. I am forgetting the name of the writers; in next of my mails I would mention the name of the books. One more thing that Naggbhat partihar was not the first king of Gurjardesh, infect that Gujaratra was founded by Yashodhrama Vikramaditya in 480CE, he was chaap by his surname as written at many of piller inscription, at piller inscription at Vasantgarh he was mentioned as the founder of Gurjardesh after defeating the Huns king MihirKul and Mihirkul’s father Turman who ended the gupta dynasty much before Battark Matrik. The age of Gurjar Desh was from 480 to 1300CE, no other Kingdom ruled over any country in the whole world for so much long period. and gurjar desh was at its height under the pratihar Mattrik is still a gotra of Gurjars. Bye for Now Parvinder Gurjar
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