|
Post by Ziddi Rajput on Mar 21, 2006 22:08:26 GMT -5
Mr. Mazhar Gujjar, and Ch. Tariq. Asslam-o-Alikum. My Friend Khan-kamran-khan has sent me link of your site and has told me that you people speaking against Rajputs. I have read your posts. Now I will reply you with Historical Proofs, I will use same language as you have used for Rajputs. I will not use very bad lanuage as Jats are using.(1) Mr. Mazhar Gujjar you say that you are a religious person. A religious person does not tell lies. You said that Pakistan Army's highest Medal "Nishan-e-Haider" was produeced after the bravery of gujjar ----Major Tufail Saheed (shaheed of 7 August 1958) . Whereas history says that first "Nishan-e-Haider was given to Rajput Shaheed Captain Raja Muhammad Sarwar Saheed 27 July 1948. See with your OPEN Eyes. It is how you gujjars are distorting the history.www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/army/war/haider2.html(2)You Say that Rajput is not a caste. Look, Mr. Mazhar gujjar. Rajput mean Son of king, meaning prince. There was a belief in Old Hinduism that they were sons of god of Sun, (surriavanshi) they are called suriavanshi rajputs, Some are called chandvanshi rajputs and some are called agnivanshi rajputs. For Aryan Hindus god was called Maharaja (or king) as well. Even today Hindus call their gods Maharaja. That is why word rajput took shape in 7 AD. So they are sons of god (or king). Whereas there is no definite proof of Gujjar origin. Some say that Gujjar were those tribes that came from Georgia. Word “tribes” does not show that you had common father. Some say that you are progeny of “Hazrat Ishaq”. For proof see and read with your own eyes.ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MABrandon/Origins.html (3) You Say that Rajptus are sons of Gujjar kings. How many Gujjar kings have passed in History? See the Search of Google here. When we search “gujjar kings” It shows just two kings. See the result here.
www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22Gujjar+kings%22&meta=And when we search for Rajput kings” it shows 957 kings. See here with your own eyes. www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22Rajput+kings%22&meta= Now tell me Are Rajputs sons of Gujjars? Or Gujjars are Sons of Rajputs? Of Course Gujjars are sons of Rajputs. (4) If you don’t Believe that Gujjars are sons of Rajputs. See this historical proof. See Rajputs have given Gujjar women respect. See a Rajput Raja Satwant Singh gave respect to an ordnary court singer gujjar woman-------Bani Thani---------- and made her queen. And made a beautiful palace in her memory in RAJASTAN. Mr. Mazhar Gujjar, now see and tell me whose name is written on the stones of RAJASTAN. Of course Rajputs and their beloved gujjar women. See. Don’t feel shame. Here is Bani Thaniwww.hindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/11/06/stories/2003110600810300.htmNow See that Palace that A Rajput Raja Build for that Gujjar Woman. And read about that Rajput King.www.rajasthaninfoline.com/rinfo/kisangrahh.htm(5) Mr. Tariq Gujjar, friend of Lahori Gujjar. You say that Rajputs gave their daughters to King Akbar. Yes I admit Some of Rajputs did so. You know what other Rajputs did with those rajputs. They boycotted with those rajputs, like Maha Rana Partab Singh and Prithvi Raj Chouhan. And lot of other Rajputs. From those Rajput women born great kings like Jahangir. Rajputs did not marry their daughters to any “low Caste”. Princesses are always married to Kings. So what?(6) If Rajputs have married their daughter to King Akbar, Gujjars have no point to taunt Rajputs, because Gujjars have married their daughters long before Rajputs did so. See with your Open Eyes, Mr. Gujjars. King Feroz Shah Tughlaq Married a Gujjar woman and built a Mahal for her and named it “gujari Mahal” Open your Eyes Mr. Gujjars and See. Click here.www.india9.com/i9show/14335.htm(7) If a King of Tughlaq Dynasty had married a Gujjar Woman and built a Mahal for her, then how could Rajputs remain behind? The also loved Gujjar women(for their beauty), married them and then built Mahals in their love. If you visit Gwalior India, you will see a Beautiful Mahal. Its name is “Gujjari Mahal” For its History Please read this paragraph. “With in the Fort walls lies the famous 15th century Gujari Mahal, which is a monument to the love of Raja Mansingh Tomar for his Gujar queen, Mrignayani. The Man Mandir Palace, built between 1486 and 1517, by Raja Mansingh is another marvelous piece of its time, which can be seen through the tour packages for Gwalior. The famous Teli ka Mandir, towering at 100 ft high, was constructed in the 9th century.” Here is its link.www.indiatoursandpackages.com/destinations/tour-packages-gwalior.htmlIf you want to know who was Raja ManSingh of Gwalior who built “Gujari Mahal” in the love of his Beloved gujjar wife. Please read this. The Rajput Resistance to Muslim Rule - Man Singh Tomar“In spite of the establishment of Muslim rule in Delhi and UP (Uttar Pradesh) in the former kindoms of Prithiviraj Chauhan and Jaichand Rathod, the Muslim invaders could never overrun the entire country. The Rajput dynasties like the Tomaras of Gwaliar and the Ranas of Mewad still continued to rule central India. One such Rajput ruler was Man Singh Tomar the king of Gwaliar. Man Singh put up a stout resistance to the Lodis and he succeeded in halting the Muslim ruler Sikandar Lodi's southward march at Gwaliar. While the Tomaras of Gwaliar held back the Muslims from advancing into Malwa, the Ranas of Mewad held up the banner of Indian independence from Mewad in those trying times of Muslim aggression in India. In South Rajasthan especially, the Rajputs had defiantly preserved their writ by resisting the Delhi Sultans. The center of this Rajput resistance was the kingdom at Chittor.”www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/landrajput.html(8) Mr. Mazhar Gujjar you have said that every kammi (working class) call themselves Rajputs, like nais(haidressers), Mochi( shoe-makers) etc. Mr. Mazhar Gujjar Every human being wants to be called an Honorable Person Or “Izat-dar”, So for that purpose they become either Rajputs or Syeds. They try to move to superior castes.They don’t like to move into any caste which is like theirs. If anybody gets respect using our “Biradari name” or caste name, we don’t have objection. Rather it makes us proud.(9) Mr. Mazhar Gujjar, you have said that rajputs use Rai, Rao, Raja, Rana. Mr. Mazhar Gujjar Rajput Can use any title that starts with “R”. Other “biradries” or Casts also use more than one title. Like Pathan Use Malik, Nawab, Khan. And Doggars use “sardar”, “Mian,” Araien use “Mian” “Choudhary” and “ Mahar”.Even you Gujjars. Why you use more than one titles? Like Choudhary, Sardar and Maher? Why Mr. Mazhar Gujjar?I hope I have Replied you well. If any doubt remains in your mind, Please ask me. I will reply you that. And remember to use good language and provide me historical proofs. If you used bad language, I will use same language and Provide you such Historical evidences about Gujjars that you will never be able to talk an eye-to-eye with any Rajput. And then Jats will have lots of stuff to make fun of you Gujjars. For the time being I am not providing you that bad information about the gujjars, because Jats may use it for wrong purpose.
Take care. And don’t mind. It is a reply in a discussion which you have started.
ZIDDI RAJPUT.
|
|
|
Post by Raj Baisla on Mar 22, 2006 1:34:21 GMT -5
Take care. Vijay jat in a new role. Now he is targetting two of his enemies by one shot. Now he is writing in the name of Rajputs and earlier in the name of Gujjars. Raj Baisla
|
|
Ram Gopal gujjar Haryana
Guest
|
Post by Ram Gopal gujjar Haryana on Mar 22, 2006 8:30:48 GMT -5
Dear Pakistani gujjars.
I request you please don't mess with rajputs. Rajputs are our real cousins. You have started a bad discussion against rajputs. We have no grudge against rajputs. Please don't write anything bad against them now. Stop it here. I hope you honour my advice.
Ram Gopal Gujjar.
|
|
|
Post by mazhar gujjar on Mar 23, 2006 11:02:33 GMT -5
dear mr zidi rajput,
assalam o alaikum,
i wellcome u in our website in our website.you r requested to answer gently but ur
previous messages not written gently.even ur title of this thread is not good' rajput versus gujjars.
mr rajput we gujjars r not versus anyone.we r not versus against rajputs or jatts.
u requested to not abuse mr rajput how can we abuse anyone bcoz in real life
i did not find any tribal fighting in these three tribes.we r living gently with eachother
in both indo pak.my most friends r rajputs and jatts.we did not abuse first in this
website.you have come first and start this useless topic.
mr rajput sometime we open a chapter with confidence to degrade others but after
sometime we regret on it. as this joke.
a rich person hired a historian to find his history to prove the people he is great
and his family was also great. but after a period he hired him forever to do not tell
anyone about his history.
ur comments about gujjars showing that u r new commer in this field. bcoz a rajput
who knows the history of rajputs cannot write against gujjars.bcoz much has been
written about gujjars in the rajputs history also.
there is much in my mind for rajputs and gujjars but my companions are saying dont
do this to continue this useless chapter.but i want to answer some questions from u
1. u have said i m telling a lie that nishan e haider is started after the bravory of a
gujjar major tufail shaheed.its right that first martyer is sarwar shaheed.but the award
has been started after the martyer of major tufail shaheed.u can verify it from any history
book about nishan e haider.i dont know sarwar shaheed is rajput or jatt but i love him
bcoz the martyers r property of nation.we should not be jealous from them.u should b not jealous from major tufail shaheed bcoz he is a gujjar.
2. u mentioned two poor gujjar women who married in other community but at the time u
admit that rajputs also married their women to akbar.so if its not bad for landlord rajputs
how it could be for poor gujjars.that period was decline of gujjars and the power of
rajputs..
3.you said rajput means son of king.its mean every son of king is rajput. if its so then
r u rajput?if .if u r a rajput please tell me about ur father,s kingdom. if ur father is not
king then how can u say urself rajput.for ur kind information in history the word rajkumar
used for son of king.
4.u said we r son of rajputs.please tell me father first or son.
ur period starts from 12th century and not our faith but by historians our nearly
period start from 5th century. i can send u refrences of several books in which its
written even in the books of courses that rajputs r the remnents of gujjars.these
books not written by gujjars.
5.u say we have two kings only.its a reward for us that u accepted our two kings
bcoz in ur first message u said gujjars r gawalas only.
mr rajput please go at wikipedia and click solankhi.you will find 9 kings only of this
gujjar clan.you said there are 957 kings of rajputs.
mr rajput can u named ur house on gujjar.
what a strange thing that rajputs have ruled the whole india with 957 kings but
no king named their ruled area on his tribal name.
how these rajput kings named their provinces and cities on gujjar.there is no need
to write the names of the provinces and cities.
only rajputana is seen in the map under british power.
its name also changed by indian government.
mr rajput when we wandering and fighting with foriegn invaders u and ur friends
were writting the books of ur bravory in ur palaces.
please read this discussion in jattworld the website of jatts.
" you will note that the rise of the rajputs and the rise of muslim power in hindustan
coinsidewitheachother.one without other not have any strength.the rajputs acted as the
military contractors for the muslims.indeed the much vaunted rana sangram singh invited
the muslims of afghanistan into india(per their own court records)
"that the rana sanga had invited babur and offered to him that they join hands and divide
then north india between them."
the rajput term is unknown before the 12th century.
the advent of the british power and the first war of independence of1857 see the fear
struck in the british,who used the rajputs to crush the movement.the reward to them was a fr
free hand on suppressing the local population including jats,with british firepower.
this has occured mainly in 18th 19th century.in 20th century thejat power rose up again
and jats r back in the power.the rajputs r in decline,bar some typing away at their computer
terminals. if u doubt what i say ,simply visit any of the rajput sites and see the insecurity.
they have a serious identity crises.
if the rajputs inflicted any harm on the jat of rajasthan,or held any power in rajasthan
they did so with muslim and later british help."
mr rajput its not my comments bcoz gujjars have said me dont say bad rajputs.
last decission.
is that we have no fight against any tribe nor jatts not rajputs.
we did not enter anyones website.
its a computer every one can abuses to others but the people who respect
their own women also respect others.
its not a matter how rajputs have become how many times they deceived the gujjars
and their other countrymen.whats mean of rajput word.how rajputs wrote their history in
their drawing room
we shall ignore those happened in history by others with gujjars.
its a fact now rajput is a big tribe of indo pak.they r muslims hindu and sikhs also.
now every tribe should do their best for their nation their countries and also for
communities.
mr rajput i have ended this useless discussion but if u want to continue i m agree
and have much stuff for this.you can also call pakhtuns,jatts and any tribe for ur
help.
mazhar gujjar
4
|
|
|
Post by khan Kamran khan on Mar 23, 2006 13:24:57 GMT -5
Ch. Mazhar Gujjar.
Believe me, I am Pathan by caste. I have told you that I have lots of friend who are rajput. That is it. I e-mailed my friend-------- Rao Muneeb----- who is commissioned into the Punjab Regiment. I think it is him who has replied you as Ziddi Rajput. I have no personal vendetta with gujjars. I have had one gujjar friend in Kakool Academy. He was very good guy. His name was Arshad toor. He told me that toor is offshoot of the gujjars.
|
|
|
Post by mazhar gujjar on Mar 23, 2006 23:32:01 GMT -5
dear kamran khan,
assalam o alaikum,
i dont know u r a pathan or rajput, a useless debate has been started by you.
the end of this is nothing.its not a matter with which class a person belongs.
everyone is respectable as a humane being.we have no choice to borne.
i respect everyone not only a pathan or nor a rajput but also a barbor or a mochi.
kamran khan but everyone is sentimental for their roots.you will be also.
when you had started this chapter i made a lng sheet against pathans. but tarique
gujjar forbidden me to start another useless debate amongst pathan and gujjars.
mr kamran i know much about your tribe and your province.
its very sad you have only one gujjar friend.you have only one gujjar friend from
the biggest tribe of ur provice.but gujjar r not much in ur khyber agency.in khyber
agency gujjars r living only in terah the most dangerous part of ur agency.
if u r living in nowshehra then only some kilometres away near mardan there
r many villages of gujjars. the famous r gujjar garhi. gujrat and also gujranwala.
these r not gujranwala and gujrat of punjab.the peshawer and charsada road is
also thick populated area of gujjars.and on charsada road choha gujjar and
miangujjar r big villages of gujjars.takar from where your famous pushto singer
sardar ali takar ,is also a big village of gujjars.
the mountains of swat ,dir,and chitral valleys r totally gujjar inhabited.
the population of the cities mixed by pathan,gujjar and kohistani tribes.but the
mountains r only inhabited by gujjars.
you were talking about gujjar badmash in lahore.go in malakand agency its headquarter is sakhakot.sayed nawab gujjar was a famous badmash of that area.
i dont praise badmash but most of gujjar badmash were not professonal badmash.
they were heros of poor people.if you doubt go in malakand agency sayed nawab
gujjar has been died but his pictures are still in the shops and the hujras of
poor people of that agency.u can also purchase the cassete of his story in pushto
from kabari bazar peshawer.you can also meat his brothers amir nawab and muhamad
rawan who r now with tablighi jamat.
in swat giga gujjar, in dir sher bahadur khan gujjar.these r few names.
but to kill others is not a thing to praise.but because there is no justice in our areas
so the brave people take law in their hands. you had asked me about abid ch and
atif ch and naji butt. they were the three members in hundereds of gujjar gang.
the head office of gujjar gang was in ur khyber agency.bhola suniara gujjar and hamayun
gujjar gang were the head of the gang.
you had said we r gawalas or graziors only.
mr kamran as a muslim and as a pathan u should not say this when.nobody is
bad for his profession.and a person whose most tribesmen also a graziour.
whats the profession of afridi and shinwari tribes in khyber agency.
the land of ur agency is not fertile.most people are wandering behind the goats.
its not bad its the profession of most prophets also our own prophet.
mr kamran gujjars have a language which is spoken not only in indopak and also
in afghanistan and central asia.you can listen it in peshawer radio.
gujjars have named the pakistan.
ch rahmat ali who given us name pakistan was also a son of our tribe.
so mr kamran gujjars r not gawala only. they r in every field and most favourit.
allah hafiz
mazhar gujjar
the population of our biraderi
c
|
|
|
Post by mazhar gujjar on Mar 23, 2006 23:45:58 GMT -5
dear ramgopal gujjar,
sorry,
i could not act upon ur advice and cannot. i can bear to say bad to me.
but i cannot bear to say bad gujjar word.
i had collected much stuff for this but in ur respect i did not write anything bad.
if rajputs r ur real cousin why they not respct u.
we did not go in anyones website.is it good for u ur real cousin come in ur
web and say u bad and u listen and say he is our real cousin.
but in ur respect i did not say bad to ur real cousin.
i have also many rajput friends who r not my cousins but they respect me and
even they attend gujjar meetings with me. but if they say bad to my tribe they
shall not be my friends or cousins.every one should respect eachother.
mazhar gujjar
|
|
|
Post by Munbeeb Rao on Mar 24, 2006 2:19:33 GMT -5
Dear Ch. Mazhar Gujjar. I myself want to end this word-war. Browse entire of your website. No Rajput said anything to Gujjars, even some of Gujjars have quoted few bad examples from “personalized history”. There are thousands of books in history, some of them were written by pro-rajput historian, some were written by pro-jat Historians and some were written by pro-gujjar Historians. So producing one Paragraph from the book of any prejudiced Historian is not any kind of win on the other Caste. Writing a History Book is not difficult at all. We can writte better. Sometimes we say hurting things to others, without any belief and conviction. I know Gujjars are great people and to say them just “Gwale” is bad joke with History. And I know if any tribe is mixed with Rajputs more throughly, it is only Gujjar. I am trying to search why Rajputs and Gujjars are so mixed with each others. But before I go, I try to make you understand few things which you have discussed in your post addressed to Ziddi Rajput. 1)You said that it was Major Tufail Shaheed whose “shahadat” prompted the Honour of Nishan-e-haider. I believe you. Being an army man, I am proud on what Major Tufail Shaheed did. There is book on Captain Sarwar Shaheed, please read it to know that he was a Rajput. 2) You say that If rajputs have been ruling India, why there is no area on the name of Rajputs in India, except, rajputana (now Rajistan)? Mr. Mazhar, Mughals, pathans, Arabs and Britishers have ruled India, could you please tell me how many areas are on their names? Whereas-----------believe me or not--------there is an area in Punjab, which is called “khoti-purra” and another is called “kujranwala”, one is called “Machian wala”; now could you please tell me how many “khoties(she-donky), or Kunjars and Machi (wood-cutter) have ruled india or pakistan? Of course they have not ruled any land but yet areas on their name. 3)You say that if rajput means son of king then every rajput is not son of king. Mr. Mazhar, I have told you that in Indian Mythology it was thought that khastriyas were sons of either god of sun, or moon, or god of fire. So those who thought that they were sons of god of sun started tobe called sons of god (king) of sun. It was belief. It did not mean that they were actually sons of god of sun. In other words rajput mean Royal class or all those people who had common god and who were Aryans by race. Now please tell me, Hazrat Muhammad (peace be upon him) belonged to Quresh tribe. But He was given title of Syed (meaning Sardar or chieftain), Now every person from Quresh tribe is called Syed? Why? Is every member of Queresh tribe a Sardar or son of Sardar? If you are not clear, please see this paragraph for encyclopedia. “As Kshatriyas, the rajputs regard themselves as being descended from the vedic warrior class[citation needed]. Legend ascribes to the Rajputs an origin springing from certain Hindu deities[citation needed]; every rajput must eventually belong to one of three great patrilineages, being{fact}}: · the Agnivanshi lineage, claiming descent from Agni, the Hindu Fire-god[citation needed]; · the Suryavanshi lineage, claiming descent from Surya, the Hindu Sun-god[citation needed]; · the Chandravanshi lineage, claiming descent from Chandra, the Hindu Moon-god[citation needed]. Some scholars also count Nagavanshi, Rishivanshi and Vayuvanshi as traditional lineages[citation needed]. The Yaduvanshi lineage, claiming descent from the Hindu god Krishna[citation needed], are in fact a major sept of the Chandravanshi lineage[citation needed]. The aforementioned three patrilineages (vanshas) sub-divide into 36 main clans (kulas)[citation needed], which in turn divide into numerous branches (shakhas) to create the intricate clan system of the rajputs[citation needed]. The principle of patrilineage is staunchly adhered to in determining one's place in the system and a strong consciousness of clan and lineage is an essential part of the Rajput character[citation needed]. Authoritative listings of the 36 rajput clans are to be found in the Kumârpâla Charita of Jayasimha and the Prithvirâj Râso of Chandbardai[citation needed].” (4)You said that Rajputs are facing identity crisis. Mr. Mazhar, if you mean that Rajputs have lost their former glory, it is true. Every great tribe has lost its former glory because princely and kingly states have been turned into Gournaments. Now, gournaments rule not one person called, king or Raja or Maharaja. Look at the mughals, how great they were, where have they gone now? But you mean that raputs have entirely perished. It is wrong. Politically they are yet more strong than any other caste. In the parlimentary history of both pakistan and India, no tribe has produced as many as rajputs members of the assemblies of both countries. If you are not sure, please call to newspaper “Jang” and confim the news. In the last elections Rajputs were on # 1, Jats were on Second, and Araein were on third. In India three Rajputs prime ministers have passed in just recent History. 1)Vishwanath Pratap Singh, Prime Minister of India (Dec.2, 1989-Nov.10, 1990) 2)V.P Singh ( He was relative of Rana Phool muhammad of (phool Naga (old bhai pheroo) 3)Narseema Rao And in recent Assembly are · Jaswant Singh, Leader of Opposition, Rajya Sabha · Bhairon Singh Shekhawat, Vice-president of India. In Pakistan Some of Great Rajputs are here In Pakistan: · Lieutenant General (retd.) Mohammad Tariq · General Asif Nawaz Janjua · Brigadier (retd) Amir Gulistan Janjua · Khan Bahadur Raja Faqir Ullah Khan · Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto · Nawab Salahuddin Khan. · Benazir Bhutto · Major Raja Aziz Bhatti · Pilot Office Rashid Minhas · Rana Naved-ul-Hasan · Prof. Rao Muhammed Akber · Amir Khan (boxer) · Lieutenant General(retd)Rao Farman Ali Khan · Major Aziz Bhatti North America: · Riasat Ali Khan (1933 – 2003) · Dr. Ali Rajput, O.C., S.O.M. Link is here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_RajputsI don’t know what you call Identity Crisis? Yet there are thousands of great names which can not be counted here. If any of my comment did hurt you, please accept my appologies. I will talk to you later. For the time being I have to do lots of asssignments. Take care. Muneeb Rao
|
|
|
Post by mazhar gujjar on Mar 24, 2006 6:23:05 GMT -5
dear muneeb rao,
assalam oalaikum,
thank u very much for ending the as good soldier.
these websites r not place of war. we have to fight against illiteracy and injustice
in our countries. which is common not only in gujjars but most of the tribes of
third world.
these websites r only for cultural discussions also history bcoz history also
improve the status of a person. a person who loves his tribe or family will not do
bad with others bcoz people shall say bad his family for his bad work.
mr muneeb rao you have accepted the gujjars r great and they have a great role
in history. the war has been ended which had been started from naswar khan oh
mr kamran khan.mr kamran dont mind its a joke.the tribes of our country r great
and belong to marshal race.not only gujjars but also pathan,jat ,baloch,araiens
or any else.but the most people r not as progressive as we think.
if mr kamran and muneeb rao have gotten comission its not mean every pathan
and rajput is as so.many pathans are wandering in streets to polish shoes.
many rajputs more than gujjars are related with profession of milk.if muneeb rao
doubt please look at the wagons which come from kahna and rana phool,s area
bhai phero.most people shall be rajputs with their milk.
mr kamran in ur city khalil and yousufzai pathans r related with milk profession.
its right we r behind in progress than our other brother tribes.but u r not much
away from us and in ur list bhutto family is claimed by arains.and major aziz bhatti is two time in ur list.i can also show u a big list of gujjars in both countries.
like.
1.ex president of pakistan ch fazal elahi.
2.ex home minister of india mr rajesh pilot.
3.ex gvernor general of punjab genaral sawar khan.
4.ex governor general east pakistan air marshal zafar shamim ch.
the speaker of your assembly this time ch amir hussain is also a gujjar.
its a big list but its less as our population.
we dont say do not come here. come here share your experiences with us for our
progress. gujjars are cultured people. they have their own language.
you can ask about our language.as u say u r searching why rajput and gujjars so
mixwed.its good for our knowledge. but if we come here to abuse eachother its
only wastage of time and we collect abuse for our parents and for our family.
at the end you have said about the khotipura or machiwala how have been named.
mr muneeb rao there is a history behind every name of a city town or street.
u asked mughals ,pathans and arabs had ruled india why there is no area on there
name.
mr muneeb rao they all were foriegners exxept pathan.the rule of these tribes
r not much in india. now pathans they have ruled only for some years in ahmad
shah abdalis reighn.some rohila pathans ruled a part of central india and they
were rohila pathans and they named this area as rohilkhand.
nobody can bear to named his home on the name of other caste.
how can any caste bear to give his ruled area on other name.
we jat gujjar and rajputs are the real inhabitants of india. and we all keen
in our identity as shown in this website and also this discussion.
any how history is a difficult subject.
i also appologize from everyone if i hurted any person.
allah hafiz
mazhar gujjar
|
|
|
Post by Muneeb Rao on Mar 24, 2006 13:06:37 GMT -5
Dear Mazhar Bhai. Good Joke on Kamran Khan. After reading this joke I called Kamran and said "Can I talk to Naswar khan?" He was surprised and said "who Naswar khan?" I said if you are a Pathan then you are of course Naswar khan". Then he recognised my voice and laughed a lot." He was also feeling sorry for this futile debate. Mazhar Bhai you are a great person. You are "Typical Lahore Gujjar". I know Gujjars are very patriotic and brave people. I like your punjabi writting. How old are you Mazhar bhai? I am sorry again for what I wrote. Please request the admin (if you know him) to delete all the bad posts from this good and informative forum. May be we will meet some day. Take Care. Allah Hafiz. Muneeb Rao.
|
|
|
Post by mazhar gujjar on Mar 25, 2006 1:57:16 GMT -5
dear muneeb rao, assalam o alaikum,
i am not great as u.bcoz u r our defenders.
i dont want to ditrub u more bcoz ur duties r more necessary for us.
i know we jatt ,rajput and gujjars have much shareeka,biraderi.
after army duties u cannot serve ur shreeka biraderi as they wish so not much time
for friends.
i pray u and ur pathan friend to become a good soldier not only for pakistan but also
for islam.
allah hafiz mazhar gujjar
|
|
ashokharsana1
Junior Member
My name is Ashok Harsana, I am from a very well established family in south Delhi
Posts: 94
|
Post by ashokharsana1 on Mar 26, 2006 9:47:46 GMT -5
Hi to all Grujars (and a new friend with same blood)...
When Vijay jaat started the same kind of discussion we tried a lot to make him understand politely but he kept on using bad lingo...
But when we tried the same thing with a Rajput He replied the same way..It shows that Rajputs have royal blood. They understand and respect others.
I am surprised to see why Muneeb Bhai doesnt have knowlidge about the relationship between Gurjars and Rajputs....
In India even a child knows that Gurjars and Rajputs are from one Ethnic stock...
According to 90% historians Agnivanshi Rajputs were born at the havan occured at Mount Abu (Raj.) by fire with four main Branches namely: Parmar, Chahman, Chalukya and Pratihar
The same history cleary says that Except "Parmars" all other three Clans were from Gujar stock.
These three clans covered almost 80% of all Rajputs.
This fact made the saying famous "Asli Rajput woh Jisne Gujari ka Doodh piya ho."(Dont Mind)
Other very solid proof:
Everyone knows "Rai Pithora" or PrithviRaj Chauhan who fought against Mohd. Gauri in 1192 was a Rajput.
But His maternal Uncle AnagPal Tanwar was a Gujar from delhi (we have a village in Delhi after his name "anangpur" and every child near that village can tell you the same story.
During that period Gujars and Rajput shared the same status. The only difference was gujars wrere declining and Rajputs were on rise that time.
I have much more factual stuff to prove the realtionship between Gurjars and Rajput..
And Yes One more Humble requset if u wanna know about the Gurjara Kings then please refine your search by entering the word "Gurjara" and see the difference...
RestNext
Regards
Ashok Harsana
The Real Rana
|
|
|
Post by AP Singh on Mar 27, 2006 3:10:03 GMT -5
Hi Brothers, 1.The Parmar are also from Gujjar stock. They ruled over Malwa region.This was one of the main ruling Gujjar clan who existed in 10th. century. 2.All the Pratihars are Gujjars only.(Present day there is Pratihar Gotra among Gujjars, There is Pratihar Gotra among Rajputs and there is a separate caste in the name of Pratihars (Padihars, Parihars). All of them are 10th. century Gujjars only. 3. All the Chauhans are Gujjars only..(Present day there is Chauhan Gotra among Gujjars, There is Chauhan Gotra among Rajputs and there is a separate caste in the name of Chauhan (Chavan, Chahaman) All of them are 10th. century Gujjars only. 5. Chapotkat (Chawra) was another Gujjar ruling clan. 4. Solanki are Gujjars only irrespective of their present day status. 5. All the guhilots are Gujjars only irrespective of their present day status. 6. The Chauhans and Guhilots were enjoying special status and seating place in the Darbars of Gurjar Pratihars and led many expeditions including the defeat of invading arabs and Pals from the east. 7. The grand mother of Prithviraj Chauhan was the daughter of Gujjar Solanki king Sidraj Solanki.His wife was of Gujjar Dhama gotra and is referred as Dhami in Delhi. The brothers of Dhami was Kadamwas (Kaimas) and khande Rao. It was Gujjar Khande Rao dhama who defeated Muhammad Ghori in the first battle between the two.The youngest but not least insignificant brother of Dhami was Pundir. The pundirs are referred as Rajputs now a days. So we have to find out how these Gujjars and rajputs were separated in two different castes. 8.The Chechi is branch of Chauhan Gujjars.In the Rajputs also it is the same. The muslim Gujjars presently residing in Himalayas and got separated from mainland Gujjars and remained isolated for more than 1000 years the chechi gotra is the branch of chauhans. That proves that both groups were same earlier. 9. The main rivals of Gujjar kings were Arab invaders, The Palas, the Rastrakuts ( the present day Rathors).The Rathor Rajputs are not from Gujjar stock. 10. It was probably the Jodhpur branch( who ruled over Malwa region also) out of the various Gujjar kingdoms like Gujjar Chauhans, Gujjar Solankis, Gujjar Parmars,Gujjar Chawras, Gujjar Tanwars etc. who got the title of Pratihars i,e. the protector of India from Arab invaders. The first title was given to Nagbahtta. The Mihir Bhoja the great was the grandson of NagBhatta. 11. The Rastrakuts (the present day rathors) were jealous of Gujjars and just after the great defeat of arabs in the hands of Nagbhatta attacked Gujjar kingdoms and the lease of land given to Parmars and Solankis Gujjars by Nagbhatta were taken back from them during the reign of the father of Mihir Bhoja the great. The status of these Gujjars king were restored during the reign of Mihir Bhoj. The Rastrakuts also used to insult the Gujjar overlords by putting the statue of Gujjar Kings in the front of the gate. This was done for Nagabhatta the Great by Rastrakut Dantidurg and later the Jaichand, the traitor, for Prithviraj Chauhan in the swamwar of sanyogita, but his own daughter preferred a Gujjar Chauhan Prathviraj Chauhan and selected him her husband by garlanded his statue. 12. The fact many people are not aware that none of direct descendants of Prithviraj Chauhan is Hindu today and they are all Muslims Gujjars. 13. One more fact that it was not PrithviRaj Chauhan who defeated Muhhamad Ghori 17 times but only one time. Yes he gave the free passage to Ghori at 8 number of time to attack Solanki Gujjar kingdom of Patan and his poet has countec that on 16 occassion Ghori was could jhave been defeated.It was Gujjar solankis of Patan who defeated Ghori 8 times. 14. The present day gujjars in Afghanistan share the same gotra as Hindu Gujjars in India today. Thay must have been given lands during the rule Gujjar Pratihars to check the invaders.After the fall of main Gujjar Kingdoms at Kannauj they were left to protect themselves without the support from Pratihars and the local fuedatories also became independant. It is a indisputed fact that these fuedatories of Gujjars were referred as rajputs in the History. 15. Also during the passage of time the most weakest of them including the new entrants in the Rajput fold ( Except Guhilots of chittor) became most powerful later by submitting them to the invaders. This is is the fact that due to this reason none of the Rajput kings at the time of britishers were worth to be considered of 21 gun salute. Only five states of Mysore, Baroda, hyderabad, gwalior and kashmir enjoyed 21 gun salute during British period.
|
|
|
Post by AP Singh on Mar 27, 2006 9:02:38 GMT -5
Hi Brothers,
In Harshcharita by Bhan Bhat, there is a reference that during the reign of Prabhakar Vardhan there were some powerful domains (kingdoms) of Gujjars. 1.These powerful domains (Kingdoms) were of pratihars, Parmars, Solankis, Chawras,Chauhans,Tanwars etc. This book was written sometime in 6th. century. The rajput word in the history appeared after 10th. century. 2. The origin of Rajputs has been there in History papers of Indian Administrative service (IAS) in one of the year during 90s and solved answers were published in the Rojgar Samachar ( Employment news) clearly stating that the earlier feudatory kings (Samants) of Gurjar Pratihars , got freedom and were later called as rajputs irrespective of their original race. 3.British encyclopedia may also be referred as a conclusive since it is source of authentic information for everybody and this is what is mentioned there- 1.By the end of the 10th century, the Pratihara feudatories--Cauhans (Cahamanas), Candellas (Chandelas), Guhilas, Kalacuris, Paramaras, and Caulukyas (also called Solankis)--were asserting their independence, although the last of the Pratiharas survived until 1027. See Encyclopedia Britannica at (http://www.kat.gr/kat/History/Ancient/India5.htm
Hence Gujjars and Rajput should know that they are real cousins and should stop fighting like in a Hindi films where two brothers get lost in some of the mela and keep fighting with each other for two hours and 50 minute out of a three hour film and come to know only at the end after seeing some birth marks on the bodies of each other during the bout that they are real brothers. It is the villain who enjoy for the complete two hours and 50 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by Munbeeb Rao on Mar 27, 2006 18:25:58 GMT -5
Dear Ashok Bhai And AP Singh.
Thank you for your so good and authentic an information on the topic that Rajputs actually are cousins of Gujjars. Now, I am almost out of chaos and confusion as to why these two castes are so inextricably intermingled that it is, more often, difficult as to whether someone is acually a Gujjar Or a Rajput? And some big names of history are taken pride by both----------Gujjars and Rajputs. It is really a great discovery for me. Certainly, it is why that Gujjars and Rajputs have almost same chivalric traits. I have yet to research through ancient historical record to know as to why some pratihars became Landlord class and some became their their tenants? And, later on, these tenants pratihars asserted themselves over their landlords, troppled their kingdoms, took the rule and started tobe called Rajputs?
Ashok bhai and AP Singh Bhai, my question is 'were both ------------feudals and their feudatories-------- of the same origin or becoming more specific sons of same grandfather? If 'yes' then why Rathore are not pratihars and yet they call themselves tobe Rajputs? Ashok and Ap Singh Bhai, these days I am extremely busy and can't spare time for research. However, I vow to myself and promise to you that I will grapple with pages of history to conculde my new but un-finished persuit to know as to who Rajputs and Gujjars are in their origin !? This forum has really intrigued my intrest to the optimum, and I am amazed to see how knowledge suddenly changes entire perspecive and opinion. Till yesterday, I used to think gujjars as rivals but now my cousins.
Take your best of care ------------------as best as you can. Talk to you in my next leisure time. Muneeb Rao.
|
|