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Post by ch yawar kasana on Dec 30, 2003 7:43:27 GMT -5
plz tell me abt link betwen jats and gujjars are they 2,a same race or have same origin who r kasnas r they also in jatts plz reply for that yawar
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vijay
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Post by vijay on Jan 20, 2004 17:01:21 GMT -5
Hi Gujjars this refers to comment give below by Sanjeev Gujjar. (I am Hindu GUJJAR(Panwar)from Western U.P. India. We are here in a very good population and are rich and strong farmers.I do'nt know how some gujjars in Pak are saying that they are in very poor conditions? ) Well guys I am also a Gujjar and let me tell you some real truth about gujjars in Western U.P. We are in a very bad shape. Our majority of population still lives below the poverty line. And we are considered as backward classes in India. Caste like Jats and Rajputs do not allow us to sit with them as they consider us as real backward caste. Our Role in Farming: As far as gujjars farming background in western U.P is concerned the average land a gujjar boy has in West U.P is 9 Acres which is not haif of as compaired to Jats and Rajputs. In India gujjars are considered as thieves as they used to steal cows and Buffaloes. Some gujjars in Noida (U.P) are rich as they have got the compensation because their land has been acquired by govt. The real farmers in Nothern India are Jats. As they dominate in Haryana, Punjab, Rajasthan, West U.P., Delhi. Our Fighting Skills: Another imporatant facts about our fightting skills. We are reqesting Inidian Govt to make an Army Regiment in our caste name but it has been denied by the govt. However Rajputs and Jats were invited by Britishers to Join Indian Army and they have their own Regiment. Also note that even in Kargil these two regiments played a major role in winning that war. Please note that real fighters of India are: first is Rajputs, Jats, Maratha, Sikh. This is real fact that these caste use to include Gujjars in their army to take care of their animals. A well known Indian Army general from Raj Rifles has said that Gujjars cannot become fighters as they can only fight with buffaloes not with armed mens. Some people in U.P says that previously gujjars used to do stealing and now they are doing kidnapping. This is the image we have. Only because we do not realize that we are really behind the mainstream in India. Castes like Jats and rajputs have really done lot of progress in all the fields. I am telling these facts to all of you as I am an Historian. Let me tell you that Western U.P is dominated by Jats and their leader Ajit Singh. and Rajasthan is dominated by Jats and Rajputs, Haryana only by jats, Punjab only by Jats. U.P by Rajputs and Yadav, Bihar by Yadav, Himachal by Rajputs, M.P by Rajputs. I do not understand which part of India do we dominate. We are in majority in kashmir only but in bad shape as Indian army treat us very badly. Our Contribution in Politics: We do not have any existence in Indian Politics except Rajesh Pilot however Rajputs has given Prime Minister like V.P Singh, current President and they have number of Cabinet Minister's and Chief Minister's. Jats had their PM Ch Charan Singh and also Fisrt Vice PM of India Devi Lal and also Gyani Jail Singh as President. What do we have? Contribution in history: Our contribution in History is nearly zero as compaired to Rajputs. Rajputs showed the great resistence in war with Mughals. Rajputs also ruled at lots of States in India. Rajputs ruled Rajastahn, Himachal, M.P, Maharashtra for atleast 50 years. So are Jat also as they also have their Bharat Pur estate. Jat Raja Todar Mal ruled U.P, Haryan and Delhi. Jat Raja ranjit Singh ruled Punjab. I do not know which part of India did we rule. Our Role in Cinema: This role is still we can't think off. However Rajputs have ChandraChur Singh, Preety Zinta, RajKumar, RajKumar Santoshi and many more. Jats have Dharmendra, Sunny , Bobby Deol. Mahima Chawdhry, Arjun rampal, Esha Deol, Malika Sehrawat, Himanshu malik and many more. Our role in Sports: Everybody says we are tough guys but I do not know why we are not in Sports. However Rajputs have Yuvraj Singh in Cricket, and 3 players in Indian Hockey Team. Jats have Sehwag, Nehra, harbajan, Kapil Dev and Ajay ratra in cricket and 4 players in Hockey Team like Gangan Sjit Singh and Jugraj Singh. Jats also have the greatest Indian Werstler Dara Singh. Contribution in Crime: We have given lot of criminals like Satveer Gujjar, Mehendra Foji, Mahendra Bhati and madan Bhaiya. even most of these guys were fixed single handedly by D.P Yadav. And now the undisputed criminal of Western U.P are jatan Sirohi, Rakesh Hasanpuria, Sushil Mooch all these guys are Jats. We are not even in crime also. I do not undersatand where our community is going. Let us realize that we are small community in India and have our own limitations. All our criminals were crushed by either jats cops or by some other criminals. Situation is not same with Rajputs and Jats criminals. they are given lot liberty. Our MLA from khekra (U.P) is saving his ass from the cops and do not go out of the village Zavli and all the time looking for Jat Leader Ch Ajit Singh support. Friends I also love my caste however I just tried to bring some hard truth about Gujjars in front of everyone as we are not ready to accept these truth. Let us except these truth and start building our strength the way Rajputs and Jats did. I wish all the best to all of you. Please click on the link below and find that Gujjars in Rajasthan share theie wife with their brotheres also. www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2003/08/31/stories/2003083100250400.htmHow cheap we are. Looking forward to hearing from all of you Best Regards Vijay Raj
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Ravi
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Post by Ravi on Feb 17, 2004 11:07:28 GMT -5
May I invite all of you to join groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/ That may help clear some misconceptions, Also I will apreciate some informaton on Gurjar History. Gurjars have arich and proud heritage. You all need to study it and re construct it. Ravi Chaudhary
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CH YOUNAS GUJJAR ADVOCATE
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Post by CH YOUNAS GUJJAR ADVOCATE on Mar 22, 2004 9:38:45 GMT -5
Hi Gujjars this refers to comment give below by Sanjeev Gujjar. (I am Hindu GUJJAR(Panwar)from Western U.P. India. We are here in a very good population and are rich and strong farmers.I do'nt know how some gujjars in Pak are saying that they are in very poor conditions? ) Well guys I am also a Gujjar and let me tell you some real truth about gujjars in Western U.P. We are in a very bad shape. Our majority of population still lives below the poverty line. And we are considered as backward classes in India. Caste like Jats and Rajputs do not allow us to sit with them as they consider us as real backward caste. Our Role in Farming: As far as gujjars farming background in western U.P is concerned the average land a gujjar boy has in West U.P is 9 Acres which is not haif of as compaired to Jats and Rajputs. In India gujjars are considered as thieves as they used to steal cows and Buffaloes. Some gujjars in Noida (U.P) are rich as they have got the compensation because their land has been acquired by govt. The real farmers in Nothern India are Jats. As they dominate in Haryana, Punjab, Rajasthan, West U.P., Delhi. Our Fighting Skills: Another imporatant facts about our fightting skills. We are reqesting Inidian Govt to make an Army Regiment in our caste name but it has been denied by the govt. However Rajputs and Jats were invited by Britishers to Join Indian Army and they have their own Regiment. Also note that even in Kargil these two regiments played a major role in winning that war. Please note that real fighters of India are: first is Rajputs, Jats, Maratha, Sikh. This is real fact that these caste use to include Gujjars in their army to take care of their animals. A well known Indian Army general from Raj Rifles has said that Gujjars cannot become fighters as they can only fight with buffaloes not with armed mens. Some people in U.P says that previously gujjars used to do stealing and now they are doing kidnapping. This is the image we have. Only because we do not realize that we are really behind the mainstream in India. Castes like Jats and rajputs have really done lot of progress in all the fields. I am telling these facts to all of you as I am an Historian. Let me tell you that Western U.P is dominated by Jats and their leader Ajit Singh. and Rajasthan is dominated by Jats and Rajputs, Haryana only by jats, Punjab only by Jats. U.P by Rajputs and Yadav, Bihar by Yadav, Himachal by Rajputs, M.P by Rajputs. I do not understand which part of India do we dominate. We are in majority in kashmir only but in bad shape as Indian army treat us very badly. Our Contribution in Politics: We do not have any existence in Indian Politics except Rajesh Pilot however Rajputs has given Prime Minister like V.P Singh, current President and they have number of Cabinet Minister's and Chief Minister's. Jats had their PM Ch Charan Singh and also Fisrt Vice PM of India Devi Lal and also Gyani Jail Singh as President. What do we have? Contribution in history: Our contribution in History is nearly zero as compaired to Rajputs. Rajputs showed the great resistence in war with Mughals. Rajputs also ruled at lots of States in India. Rajputs ruled Rajastahn, Himachal, M.P, Maharashtra for atleast 50 years. So are Jat also as they also have their Bharat Pur estate. Jat Raja Todar Mal ruled U.P, Haryan and Delhi. Jat Raja ranjit Singh ruled Punjab. I do not know which part of India did we rule. Our Role in Cinema: This role is still we can't think off. However Rajputs have ChandraChur Singh, Preety Zinta, RajKumar, RajKumar Santoshi and many more. Jats have Dharmendra, Sunny , Bobby Deol. Mahima Chawdhry, Arjun rampal, Esha Deol, Malika Sehrawat, Himanshu malik and many more. Our role in Sports: Everybody says we are tough guys but I do not know why we are not in Sports. However Rajputs have Yuvraj Singh in Cricket, and 3 players in Indian Hockey Team. Jats have Sehwag, Nehra, harbajan, Kapil Dev and Ajay ratra in cricket and 4 players in Hockey Team like Gangan Sjit Singh and Jugraj Singh. Jats also have the greatest Indian Werstler Dara Singh. Contribution in Crime: We have given lot of criminals like Satveer Gujjar, Mehendra Foji, Mahendra Bhati and madan Bhaiya. even most of these guys were fixed single handedly by D.P Yadav. And now the undisputed criminal of Western U.P are jatan Sirohi, Rakesh Hasanpuria, Sushil Mooch all these guys are Jats. We are not even in crime also. I do not undersatand where our community is going. Let us realize that we are small community in India and have our own limitations. All our criminals were crushed by either jats cops or by some other criminals. Situation is not same with Rajputs and Jats criminals. they are given lot liberty. Our MLA from khekra (U.P) is saving his ass from the cops and do not go out of the village Zavli and all the time looking for Jat Leader Ch Ajit Singh support. Friends I also love my caste however I just tried to bring some hard truth about Gujjars in front of everyone as we are not ready to accept these truth. Let us except these truth and start building our strength the way Rajputs and Jats did. I wish all the best to all of you. Please click on the link below and find that Gujjars in Rajasthan share theie wife with their brotheres also. www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2003/08/31/stories/2003083100250400.htmHow cheap we are. Looking forward to hearing from all of you Best Regards Vijay Raj THERE is a lot of propaganda against gujars and mr vijay has contributed on the same lines.you talk about rajpoots who donot know that how they originated.all the renowned historians are agreed that there was one and only gujar marshal race who defended the india for many centuries.you talked about BADMASHI.JAT.RAJPOOT ARE not able to face gujars in battlefield.history is witnessed .we have fought with the invaders and always showed resistance ,and on the other hand jats welcomed/surrendered before, foreighners.rajpoots are illegitimate sons of gujar rajas.and jats are also ignorant that what they are?it is insult of gujjars that they are being matched with gujar royal blood.gujars never mixed with others but many gotras of jats call themselves gujars because their ancestors were aware of the fact that joining gujar forces is only source of salvation.gujars have very respectable status in hindumat.we are the descendants of LORD KRISHNA who is worshipped in india.ther is a countless great personalities both in PAK and INDIA who contributed a lot for their countries.ajaat,meaning illegitimate sons,and socalled rajpoots,having no wedlock,can never be able to challege gujar royal status. how cheap those who donot know history and real facts.looking forward to hear from all of you,especially vijay raj and vipin bhati/=0 chyounasgujjar76@hotmail.com pak-ISLAMABAD
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CH YOUNAS GUJJAR ADVOCATE
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Post by CH YOUNAS GUJJAR ADVOCATE on Mar 22, 2004 9:42:59 GMT -5
THERE is a lot of propaganda against gujars and mr vijay has contributed on the same lines.you talk about rajpoots who donot know that how they originated.all the renowned historians are agreed that there was one and only gujar marshal race who defended the india for many centuries.you talked about BADMASHI.JAT.RAJPOOT ARE not able to face gujars in battlefield.history is witnessed .we have fought with the invaders and always showed resistance ,and on the other hand jats welcomed/surrendered before, foreighners.rajpoots are illegitimate sons of gujar rajas.and jats are also ignorant that what they are?it is insult of gujjars that they are being matched with gujar royal blood.gujars never mixed with others but many gotras of jats call themselves gujars because their ancestors were aware of the fact that joining gujar forces is only source of salvation.gujars have very respectable status in hindumat.we are the descendants of LORD KRISHNA who is worshipped in india.ther is a countless great personalities both in PAK and INDIA who contributed a lot for their countries.ajaat,meaning illegitimate sons,and socalled rajpoots,having no wedlock,can never be able to challege gujar royal status.
how cheap those who donot know history and real facts.looking forward to hear from all of you,especially vijay raj and vipin bhati/=0 chyounasgujjar76@hotmail.com pak-ISLAMABAD
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Gujjar Nirbhay Singh
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Post by Gujjar Nirbhay Singh on May 18, 2004 3:36:12 GMT -5
Dear VipinBhati or Vijairaj or whoever you are), The way you have distorted the facts against Gujjars and in favour of Jats it does not require an Einstein to conclude that you are a jat. Since you are posting this messages in various surnames of Gujjars it also concludes that you are born to a woman with many husbands and not really able to decide to which caste you belong to I, e, Ajat (Without caste). Now a days with the advent of technology you can go for genetic tests and find your real father and will relieve you from the pain of being called ajaat and you may find your real Gujjar surmane. The real facts are: 1. The western UP is dominated by Gujjars: The Rulers of Pariknuts Garh , Behsuma and Landhora ( Near Roorkee were Gujjars and these places may be visited to see the forts built by them or see the website and look for the respective places: www.meerut.in/tourist.htm2. Gujjars are the main Landholding community along with Rajputs and Tyagis in this region. The Landholding of Charan Singh A jat leader ( He was PM only for 15 days) was less than 5 acres and for ordinary jats is much less. Hence it is true that jats are a farming community in this region but not the real landholding community because some of them work for others otherwise you will not find many jats working as conductors in Delhi buses. 3.Gyani Jail Singh was not a jat but a Tarkhan, Kapil Dev Ajay Ratra are not Jats. 4...Raja Ranjeet Singh was a Sansi from Suckerchakia village of Gujran Wala near Lahore and not a Jat. 5...The Founder bharatpur jatraj ( Raja of jats only since he was not acceptable to others) was A dacoit named Harman Jat from the jungles of Agra. (For more information read Shahajahan Naman) . He was lucky not to be born in the times of Rajput Thakur dacoit Man Singh or Gujjar Thakur dacoit Mohar Mohar Singh otherwise would have been finished. 6. The jat politicians and criminals glorified by this man are real euinuchs otherwise where were they When Chandra Swamy exploited Pamela Singh (alias Pamela bordes) a jat girl from haryana of Miss India Runners fame as a call Girl and served her as prostitute to arms dealer Khasshogi and to many more. It was brave Gujjars who saved some pride for jat farmer community and sent Chandra Swami behind the bars. 7. Gujjars dominates in western UP: 1.Before 1857 this area was called Mini Gujarat due to domination of Gujjars in this region as this region was ruled by them. So only a fool shall assume that the social status of the ruling class can be lower than the public. The places ruled by Gujjars are Pariknuts Garh and Behsuma in Meerut District and Landhora in Saharanpur district. If you have any doubt you may visit the places to see the fort built by Gujjars or alternatively connects to following links and look for respective places. www.meerut.in/tourist.htmIn Saharan Pur Gujjars kingdom was at Landhora (Near Roorkee) and the rulers of this state were descendents of Jograj Singh Gujjar who was the Supreme Commander of the army of Sarvakhap Panchayat who fought against Taimur. Jograj Singh and his heroic warriors fiercely attacked the army of Taimur and forced him to flee towards Ambala. In this battle the hero Jograj Singh suffered 45 wounds but he kept his senses. The heroic warriors of the Panchayat army did not let Timur's army reach the Banks of the holy Ganga (Har Ki Pauri). Timur fled towards Ambala by way of the Hills. This fleeing army of Timur was chased upto Ambala by the army of the Panchayat, and expelled from their nation of Haryana. These facts are recorded in the History of Sarvkhap Panchayat to counter the attack of Taimur. Gujjars are main land holding community in Western UP: Since this area is irrigated by Ganga Canals the average land holding of 9 Acre is very good by any standards. For your information Ex-PM Charan Singh (Though he has a dubious distinction of being PM for less than 15 days), was from western UP and his landholding was less than 5 acres. How come you describe the jat a real farmers. If that is the case you will not find majority of jats from his constituency working as bus conductors in Delhi Transport Corporation. The lad is eqally distributed among Gujjars, Tyagis, rajputs, jat etc.Yes the situation for land distribution would have been entirely different had Gujjars not revolted against Britishers in 1857 when most of Gujjar feudal lords were hanged and their land was given to other people who were till that time having the status of only cultivators. 8: Gujjars are real fighters: It is not questionable. Gujjars were fighters and ruled the country from 6th. Centuries to 12th. Century ( 6th century to 10th. Century by Gujjar pratihars and 10th. Century to 12th. Century by Gujjar Solankis of nahilwara Patan Gujrat) . They were overlords of Rajputs till 12th. Century and Delhi was founded by them. If you have any doubts regarding these facts you look for further information at the following sites: 1. ... The Rajputs who till the 10th century were mostly local feudal lords holding the a www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/landrajput.html2. In . Haryana region the Tomara originally feudatories of the Gurjara-Pratihara founded the city of Dhillika (Delhi) in 736. ... kshatryas.tripod.com/ Great Maratha Shivaji Baisla ( In Maharastra it is pronunciated as Bhonsla like yadavs are called as jadhav. It is also proved by Col. James Todd that his forfathers were from Chittor and Sisodias of Chittor are from Solanki stock anhilwara patan. In 1672 Great Gujjar Warrior Senapati Pratap Rao Gujjar completely routed the Aurangzeb’s army at the fortress of Salhir. See website: www.iackuwait.org/indiahist.asp and also the Navy fleet of Marathas was commanded by great warrior Gujjar admirals like Sidhoji Gujar and Kanhoji Angre. For more information See site indiannavy.nic.in/maritime_history.htm . Gujjars are part of Sikhs and Bhai Daharm Singh Gujjar one of the 5 panch piara of Guru Govind Singh was from village Saifpur situated western UP district Meerut. Gujjar Leaders are indomitable: We have given National Leaders like the Iron Man Sardar Patel. Read the book “The Indomitable Sardar” published by Bhartiya Vidya Bhawan and written by Mr. KL Punjabi where it clearly mentioned that Vallabbhai Patel belong to famous clan of Lewa Gujars who came from Punjab and occupied the rich charotar land between Mahi and Tapti rivers. They were man of strong passion and and high tempers and when aroused obeyed no law but that of their own. That is very true to all Gujjars irrespective of their religion. Rajesh Pilot was another National Leader. Our History is uncomparable:The last real hindu kings were only Gujjars. Others were either the servants of Mughals or britishers and the word king and servant can not be used for the same person at the same time. The only exception were Chatrapati Shivaji and rulers of Mewar and both of them belong to the Gurjar Solanki Dynasty of Anhilwara Patan in Gujarat. Read annals and antiquities of Rajasthan by James Todd. During the rule of powerful Mihirbhoj Pratihar of Gujjar Pratihar Dynasty who ruled almost for entire country from Punajb to west Bengal and Siddraj Jai Singh, Kumarpal of Gujjar Solanki dynasy who ruled the entire Gurjar Desh ( That time including present Gujrat ,Rajputana, Maharashtra, and part of Gujrat in Pakinstan) no foreigner could dare to attack India. Read the Gyanpeeth award winning book written by the Historian and scholar Laxmi Shankar Vyas where he has proved that Gujjar raja KumarPal Solanki was a Chakravarti Samrat. Gujjar Nirbhay Singh
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Post by Jagga Gujjar on May 20, 2004 6:06:41 GMT -5
As far as I know the links are following. 1. Rajputs are the links: Where Gujjars were overlord of Rajputs the Jats wereb slave of them. 2. The links is Delhi Transport:Every thirbus conductor is a Jatn in Delhi and every third bus belong to a Gujjar. Jagga Gujjar
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Post by Veer Gujjar on May 29, 2004 6:23:19 GMT -5
Gujjars have no relation with jats. However the Rajputs are related to Gujjars by blood since the Rajputs - Samurais from India till 10th. century were mostly Jagirdars and revenue collectors of Gujjars. For more info see wesite: Rajasthaninfoline.com/rinfo/rajputh.htm
In spite of the Muslim rule up to Punjab, the Rajputs gained control of the heart of North India. The Rajput (from Raj-Putra i.e. prince or literally "king's son") who held the stage of feudal rulers before the coming of the Muslims were a brave and chivalrous race. The Rajput legend traces their ancestry to Bappa Rawal - the legendary founder of the race who is said to have lived in the 8th century. In actual fact although they were Kshatriyas in the Hindu caste hierarchy, they seem to have genetically descended from the Shakas and Hunas who had invaded north India during the Gupta period and had subsequently settled down in North India and due to their war-like attitudes and been absorbed as Kshatriyas into Hindu society. It is they who held the banner when the first Muslim invaders reached the Indian Heart land in the 12th century i.e. around 1191 C.E.
The Rajputs who till the 10th century were mostly local feudal lords holding the status of revenue collectors for their Gurjara-Pratihara overlords, asserted themselves as independent rulers, after the Ghaznavid storm had blown over, and took over the earlier kingdoms of the Gurjara-Pratiharas. The main Rajput kingdoms in the 11th and 12th centuries were that of the Cahamanas (Chouhans) in East Punjab, Northern Rajasthan and Delhi. The Gahadwalas (Rathods ) ruled the Ganges valley today's UP. The Paramaras ruled Malwa in Central India and the Tomaras ruled from Gwaliar. The most powerful kingdoms were hose of the Chouhans and the Rathods - both of which unfortunately were incessantly at war with each other when the Muslim raiders appeared again in the 1191 C.E. The Rajputs, (from Raj-Putra i.e. prince or literally "king's son") who were a brave and chivalrous race, held the stage of feudal rulers before the coming of the Muslims.
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Post by YOUNAS GUJJAR on May 29, 2004 11:59:47 GMT -5
DEAR VEER GUJAR,
VEER MEANS BROTHER IN PUNJABI LANGUAGE AND U ARE REALLY BROTHER OF GUJAR BROTHERS.I AM AGREED WITH UOR VIEWS THAT GUJAR PARTIHARAS RULED INDIA AND RAJPUTS WERE THIER REVENUE COLLECTORS.GUJERS WERE THE REAL LORDS.BUT THE QUESTION ARISES THAT HOW THESE REVENUE COLLECTORS REPLACED GUJAR KING,S STATUS AND WHEN?WAS THERE A RELATIONSHIP OF MASTER AND SERVANT BETWEEN PARTIHARAS AND RAJPUTS?WHY ONE BROTHER IS SAYING TO HIS REAL BROTHER THAT U ARE REVENUE COLLECTORS AND NOTHING MORE AND WHEN THESE RAJPUTA DOMINATED RECALLS THEM AS GUJAR,S DESCENDANTS WHEN WE HAVE THE SAME ASCENDANTS?
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Post by VEER GUJJAR on Jun 1, 2004 4:36:01 GMT -5
Dear Younas, In Sanskrit Veer also means brave which we are. It is very difficult to see through the sequence of events which happened 800 years ago but certainly not impossible to analyze the historical records and to arrive at the right conclusion which is as follows: 1. All the Rajputs are not related to Gujjars by blood. The main branches of Gujjars are Pratihars, Solanki, Parmar and Chauhans. The Rajputs of these branches and their sub branches are originally Gujjars and in some region of the undivided India they are refereed to as Gujjars whereas in other region the same people are reffred as Rajputs. Others like Kushwaha, Rathors etc. are not genetically linked with Gujjars Since as per the historical records Kushwahas are from Narwar (Near Gwalior, which was called Nishida earlier, I,e, the kingdom of Nishads) and Raja nal of Nal-Damyanti fame was from there and Kushwahas claim there genetic links with them and Rahtors are from Rashrtakut stock. 2. The fall of Gujjar Partihar Dynasty was the beginning of Gujjar Solanki Dynasty of Patan in Gujarat. During the reign of Kumarpal Solanki the last most powerful Gujjar king of Gujarat the Guhilot of Mewad used to be his feudal lords and were from the same Solanki stock. Hence at the fall of Solanki dynasty the most power Hindu king were Guhilots of Mewad. During Mughal rule Mewad remained independent and had never accepted Mughals as their kings. However the Kushwahas and Rathors who were almost insignificant till the reign of Akbar not only accepted Mughals as their overlords but also offered their daughters as brides to them and during the entire period of Mughal rule became more powerful than the Rajputs of Gujjar stock and that was first beginning of the Gujjar Rajput Divide. 3. During the period of Aurangjeb, the most powerful independent hindu kings were Shivaji Bhonsla ( Among Gujjars this gotra is pronunciated as Baisla) and his Senapati Pratap Rao Gujar and hence got maximum share of gains and losses due to many battles fought with him. After the death of Pratap Rao Gujar and Shivaji it was not their descendents who ruled their kingdoms but their Peshwas (ministers). At this point of time no Rajputs of any stock was ready to accept the authority of Peshwas and hence the Peshwas promoted others like Holkar ( A Gadaria by caste from village of Hol), Sindia ( a caste of similar status to Holkars) , A jat from Bharat Pur and a sansi (Raja Ranjeet Singh) from Lahore. Now a new breed of Rajputs were born and some of them like Holkars, Scindias got better of the earlier Rajputs during and after the regime of Peshwas. This was second divide between Gujjars and rajputs. 4. In Similar situation the last Mughal king also did not easily accepted the British as overlord and hence got punished. Now a days most of their ancestors are rickshaw pullers or of no significance. Ranjeet Singh Sansi the king of Lahore also who was very powerful that time did not accept British and paid the price. His son Dilip Singh was made almost captive at England and in India the East India Company promoted his feudal lords mostly jats to the extent that today no body recognize his Sansi caste except that Raja sansi Airport. This was the begining of other left overs to come in to prominance. 5. Due to the facts mentioned above and inclusion of many other lower rank castes among Rajputs, most of the Gujjars never like to be called them as Gujjar Rajput or Rajputs. Also technically they were not Rajputs since the Rajput means the son of Raja but not necessarily from the queen. The son of Raja from the queen used to be called as Rajkumars without any change in the status of their original caste. Moreover the historians might have found problem calling the children of these feudal lords as Rajkumar since they were not directly the sons of the real king but certainly were of royal blood and hence called them as Rajputs. Also I firmly believe that the term Gujjar was very much respectable and this is the reason people not fortunate enough to be born as gujjars used to keep the name of their children as Gujjar Singh, Gujjar Mal etc. So there is no reason for Gujjar themselves to be called by some other title. Regards. Veer Gujjar
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 4, 2004 6:16:41 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Khatana, The fact that Unlike other communities, in case of Gujjars the places are named after Gujjars and not the Gujjar Gotras named after the places may be the reason of this confusuion. For example in Punjab every body except Gujjars and Rajputs from the village Gill is called as Gill irrespective of his origin. In case of Gujjars the mother of Dev Narayan and the daughter of the king of Malwa in 11th. century was Khatana. Dev Narayan is worshipped as God largely by Gujjar community in Rajasthan. In Most of the Gujjar Gotras like Chaprana, Khatana, Adhana, Shardhana, Awana, Kalsana etc. the word Rana is silent. This is because the title Rana originally belong bo Gurjar Pratihars. After they lost their kingdom at Kannauj some time around the end of 10th. century some of them settled in Nagda near Udaipur. There the Guhilots of Mewar at that time the fuedatories of Gujjar Chalukyas ( and belonged to the same Gujjar Chalukya stock) of Gujrat Patan reduced their power substantially and started using the title Rana themselves. This fact is recorded in the book "Annals and antiquities of Rajasthan" by Col James Todd. The Gotra of the God Devnarayan was Chauhan and they are called Baghrawat Chauhans since his grandfather was Baghji Chauhan and his title was Rawat. Similarly with the passage of time the Chaap Rana became Chaprana and the Kalas Rana became Kalsana etc etc. Regards. AP Singh
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Post by AP Singh on Jun 4, 2004 6:18:58 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Khatana, The fact that Unlike other communities, in case of Gujjars the places are named after Gujjars and not the Gujjar Gotras named after the places may be the reason of this confusuion. For example in Punjab every body except Gujjars and Rajputs from the village Gill is called as Gill irrespective of his origin. In case of Gujjars the mother of Dev Narayan and the daughter of the king of Malwa in 11th. century was Khatana. Dev Narayan is worshipped as God largely by Gujjar community in Rajasthan. In Most of the Gujjar Gotras like Chaprana, Khatana, Adhana, Shardhana, Awana, Kalsana etc. the word Rana is silent. This is because the title Rana originally belong bo Gurjar Pratihars. After they lost their kingdom at Kannauj some time around the end of 10th. century some of them settled in Nagda near Udaipur. There the Guhilots of Mewar at that time the fuedatories of Gujjar Chalukyas ( and belonged to the same Gujjar Chalukya stock) of Gujrat Patan reduced their power substantially and started using the title Rana themselves. This fact is recorded in the book "Annals and antiquities of Rajasthan" by Col James Todd. The Gotra of the God Devnarayan was Chauhan and they are called Baghrawat Chauhans since his grandfather was Baghji Chauhan and his title was Rawat. Similarly with the passage of time the Chaap Rana became Chaprana and the Kalas Rana became Kalsana etc etc. Regards. AP Singh
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Post by younas gujar on Jun 11, 2004 6:42:56 GMT -5
dear veer gujar your sources of informations are well established historically.mt ancestors migrated from ambala (east punjab)to west punjab in 1947.my gotra is salumber or lomberr. have u any information of this gotra,s geniealogical tree.my ancestors claim that we are the descendants of rajas of mewar named rana rattan singh salumber. i have come to know that there is a place named after this gotra in odaipur rajasthan.can u help me in telling that salumber or lumberr gujars are still settled in INDIA? Dear Younas, In Sanskrit Veer also means brave which we are. It is very difficult to see through the sequence of events which happened 800 years ago but certainly not impossible to analyze the historical records and to arrive at the right conclusion which is as follows: 1. All the Rajputs are not related to Gujjars by blood. The main branches of Gujjars are Pratihars, Solanki, Parmar and Chauhans. The Rajputs of these branches and their sub branches are originally Gujjars and in some region of the undivided India they are refereed to as Gujjars whereas in other region the same people are reffred as Rajputs. Others like Kushwaha, Rathors etc. are not genetically linked with Gujjars Since as per the historical records Kushwahas are from Narwar (Near Gwalior, which was called Nishida earlier, I,e, the kingdom of Nishads) and Raja nal of Nal-Damyanti fame was from there and Kushwahas claim there genetic links with them and Rahtors are from Rashrtakut stock. 2. The fall of Gujjar Partihar Dynasty was the beginning of Gujjar Solanki Dynasty of Patan in Gujarat. During the reign of Kumarpal Solanki the last most powerful Gujjar king of Gujarat the Guhilot of Mewad used to be his feudal lords and were from the same Solanki stock. Hence at the fall of Solanki dynasty the most power Hindu king were Guhilots of Mewad. During Mughal rule Mewad remained independent and had never accepted Mughals as their kings. However the Kushwahas and Rathors who were almost insignificant till the reign of Akbar not only accepted Mughals as their overlords but also offered their daughters as brides to them and during the entire period of Mughal rule became more powerful than the Rajputs of Gujjar stock and that was first beginning of the Gujjar Rajput Divide. 3. During the period of Aurangjeb, the most powerful independent hindu kings were Shivaji Bhonsla ( Among Gujjars this gotra is pronunciated as Baisla) and his Senapati Pratap Rao Gujar and hence got maximum share of gains and losses due to many battles fought with him. After the death of Pratap Rao Gujar and Shivaji it was not their descendents who ruled their kingdoms but their Peshwas (ministers). At this point of time no Rajputs of any stock was ready to accept the authority of Peshwas and hence the Peshwas promoted others like Holkar ( A Gadaria by caste from village of Hol), Sindia ( a caste of similar status to Holkars) , A jat from Bharat Pur and a sansi (Raja Ranjeet Singh) from Lahore. Now a new breed of Rajputs were born and some of them like Holkars, Scindias got better of the earlier Rajputs during and after the regime of Peshwas. This was second divide between Gujjars and rajputs. 4. In Similar situation the last Mughal king also did not easily accepted the British as overlord and hence got punished. Now a days most of their ancestors are rickshaw pullers or of no significance. Ranjeet Singh Sansi the king of Lahore also who was very powerful that time did not accept British and paid the price. His son Dilip Singh was made almost captive at England and in India the East India Company promoted his feudal lords mostly jats to the extent that today no body recognize his Sansi caste except that Raja sansi Airport. This was the begining of other left overs to come in to prominance. 5. Due to the facts mentioned above and inclusion of many other lower rank castes among Rajputs, most of the Gujjars never like to be called them as Gujjar Rajput or Rajputs. Also technically they were not Rajputs since the Rajput means the son of Raja but not necessarily from the queen. The son of Raja from the queen used to be called as Rajkumars without any change in the status of their original caste. Moreover the historians might have found problem calling the children of these feudal lords as Rajkumar since they were not directly the sons of the real king but certainly were of royal blood and hence called them as Rajputs. Also I firmly believe that the term Gujjar was very much respectable and this is the reason people not fortunate enough to be born as gujjars used to keep the name of their children as Gujjar Singh, Gujjar Mal etc. So there is no reason for Gujjar themselves to be called by some other title. Regards. Veer Gujjar
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Post by Veer Gujjar on Jun 11, 2004 10:47:04 GMT -5
Dear Younas, This is the information I got from one website regarding Salumber. Sisodias are the Guhilots from village Sisod and belong to the stock of Solanky Dynasty of Gujjars at Patan. King Mulraj of Gujjar Solanki dynasty defeated Muhammad Ghori but did not kill him. I think your ancestors must have shifted to Ambala sometimes around 1527 after the death of great Raja Ratan Singh in the battle of Khanwa. Regards. Veer Gujjar
SALUMBER (Thikana)
VILLAGES: 237 REVENUE: 80,000Rs ACCESSION DATE: ?? STATE: Udaipur DYNASTY: Sisodia (Chundawat clan) RELIGION: Hindu POPULATION: 31,058 (1901)
PRESENT RULER: Rawat DEVRATH SINGH, 28th Rawat of Salumber (2002/-)
aged 15
PREDECESSORS AND SHORT HISTORY: First Class Umraos. Rulers were .... Rawat CHUNDA SINGH Rawat KANDHAL SINGH I, son of preceding, married and had issue. Rawat RATAN SINGH I (qv) Rawat SIHA SINGH, 1st Rawat of Amet. Rawat SANGA SINGH, 1st Rawat of Deogarh. Rawat RATAN SINGH I, died 1527 at Khanwa. ??Rawat DUDA SINGH Rawat SAIN DAS, died 25th February 1568. Rawat KHENGAR, married and had issue. Rawat KISHAN DAS (qv) Rao GOVIND DAS, 1st Jagirdar of Begun and a First Class Umrao. Rawat KISHAN DAS fl.1572, married and had issue. Vithal Das, 10th son, married and had issue. Dayal Das, married and had issue. Rawat RANCHOR DAS, 1st Rawat of Lunda, married and had issue. Rawat DAULAT SINGH, 2nd Rawat of Lunda. AJAB SINGH, received the Jagir of Thana. Rawat JAIT SINGH Rawat MAN SINGH Rawat PRITHVI RAJ Rawat RAGHUNATH SINGH Rawat RATAN SINGH II Rawat KANDHAL II, married and had issue. Rawat KESRI SINGH I (qv) Rawat SAMANT SINGH fl.1720, 1st Jagirdar of Bambora. Rawat KESRI SINGH I fl.1711, married and had issue. Rawat KUBER SINGH (qv) Rawat LAL SINGH, 2nd son, 1st Rawat of Bhainsrorgarh. Rawat ARJUN SINGH, 3rd son, fl.1744, 1st Rawat of Kurabar. ROR SINGH, 4th son, received the Jagir of Satola. Rawat KUBER SINGH, married and had issue. ABHAI SINGH, 5th son, received the Jagir of Chavand. Rawat JAIT SINGH II Rawat JODH SINGH I Rawat PAHAR SINGH fl.1769 Rawat BHIM SINGH fl.1800, married and had issue. Rawat BHAIRAV SINGH, 2nd son, 1st Rawat of Bhadesar. Rawat BHAWANI SINGH Rawat RATAN SINGH III ??Rawat PADAM SINGH Rawat KESRI SINGH II -/1863 Rawat JODH SINGH II (adoptive son, originally from Bambora) 1863/-, born 1833, adopted Kunwar Tej Singh, son of the Rawat of Bhadesar, Rawat ONAR SINGH 1901/-, born 1864. Rawat Shri KHUMAN SINGH 1930/1980, born 14th March 1912, adopted, younger son of Rawat INDER SINGH of Bhainsrorgarh, educated at Mayo College, Ajmer; married 1928 and had issue. He died 14th January 1980. Kumar Pushpendra Singh, born 1991 Samvat, married and had issue. He died vp. Rawat NIRBHAY SINGH (qv) Kumar Amarendra Singh, born 1993 Samvat. Rawat NIRBHAY SINGH 1980/2002, born 1st June 1958, married 29th January 1983, Rajkumari Gayatri of Bhinga and had issue. He died 27th May 2002. Rajkumari Mrigangini Kumari Rawat DEVRATH SINGH (qv) Rawat DEVRATH SINGH (son) (see above)
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vijay
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Post by vijay on Jul 23, 2004 17:50:12 GMT -5
Gujjar Nirbhay Singh You want to know about Jat Kings and Ranjit Singh Check this .. www.vedamsbooks.com/no29325.htmWe are responsible for making the Govt of rajasthan, Haryana, Punjab and also in UP. Tell me one state where Gujjar is CM History is good to feel happy, tell me honestly right now. What is the role and importance of Gujjar in Politics, entertainment, Army, Sports and also in Education. You Son of a pregnant dog this 2004 Padam Shri award has been given to Jat (PS Sirohi) He is from IIT Delhi. India param Vir chakra has been given to jat see in the link www.haryana-online.com/WarHeroes/major_hoshiar_singh.htmlook whole area od Western UP from Agra to Shahranpur is called as Jat Belt. Check if you have doubt. www.outlookindia.com/pti_print.asp?id=206335This is the reason leaders like Mulayam and Atal shake hands with Ajit Singh because of Jat Votes. Tell me one time did ever Mulayam or Atal shook hands with any Gujjar leader. You talk about about Charan Singh. Atleast jat gave a Prime Minister. and also note you son of a ******** *** India's fist Deputy PM was Devi Lal (Jat). We have give lots of Sports Minister, Home, Agriculture and external Ministers as well. Do not utter word against Jat you son of ******** Vijay
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